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4683
July 13th, 2017 00:00
Help Needed to Rescue my Dell Desktop 8400 After Senior Operator Malfunction
Help: I could use assistance to complete a Windows XP Reinstall on my Dell 8400 after doing an incredibly incoherent and senile job cleaning the inside of my computer. The computer is used as an off-line digital library for family photos, documents, and financial records, and simple games (Spider Solitaire, Bookworm, Hearts). I decluttered our home two years ago by digitizing, shredding, and disposing 17 GB of records and extended family records using a Scansnap scanner. I disabled the network access to prevent any possible internet access after Microsoft ended its Windows XP security support.
What Happened: The machine had been showing signs of stress during start-up, sometimes requiring several start attempts, and the DVD drives were dusty and straining. The last time I cleaned the machine, I failed to get the DVD and diskette drives properly seated after cleaning, which I thought might have been causing some of the start-up problems. I carefully opened the computer case standing book configuration and used an LED flashlight to see what needed to be cleaned. The flashlight fell over several times and touched the case. I later realized the flashlight base contains a powerful magnet. I believe the magnetic field adversely affected the disc drives and memory components such that the computer would only show one line of text on a black screen - the operating system was corrupted or missing. No mouse. The one line of text read "X300 SE 128MB BIOS P/N 113-A33406-100". None of the devices were functional. Disaster! Fortunately, I have all of my Dell software discs with a Windows XP Reinstall Disc, the Windows XP Upgrade disc I used to improve the XP program years ago, a Windows rescue floppy, and backup files on a portable 1TB Western Digital Passport.
System Description: Current System Status (after partial reinstall) Dell System 8400 w/BIOS Version A04 (01/10/05), Intel Pentium 4 CPU 3.00 Ghz, 2 MB L2 Cache, Hyperthreading Capable and 64-bit Technology (Intel EM64T), 4GB DIMM RAM DDR2 SDRAM, w/Drives (Diskette, Drive 0 SATA-0, Drive 1 SATA-1, Drive 2 SATA-2, Drive 3 SATA-3, Drive 4 PATA-0, Drive 5 PATA-1) , SATA Operation, Onboard Devices (Integrated NIC, Integrated Audio, USB Controller, LPT Port Mode, LPT Port Address, Serial Port #1, PS/2 Mouse Port), Video (Primary Video). I am guessing the PATA Drives above may be my DVD ROM and DVD/CD R/W drives. The SATA drives I believe are 160 GB hard drives.
What I Have Done So Far: After a taking a nap to mentally recover from my error, I reopened the computer to see whether I have mixed up connections to the hard drives. I downloaded a copy of the Dell user manual using a laptop and learned about the diagnostic lights. The lights indicated Post failure, memory subsystem failure, and video system failure. This information made me realize that the flashlight magnet was the likely caused of system failure. I tried rearranging the hard drives to see if I have switched their positions. I did not change any of the jumpers on the back of the hard drives. No improvement. No operating system. I found an old MS DOS program diskette and had DOS - but couldn't remember much about using it. Somehow I got the Windows Automated Recovery Disk for Back.BKF to work . I have created the disc on 19 Apr 2017. It enabled me to use the BIOS setup program. I have changed a number of parameters on the boot sequence to see what might work for OS Install under the Post Behavior Option - and am way over my "understanding" threshold. I finally inserted the Dell Reinstallation Disc and it started! The first thing it did was to assess the condition of the hard drives. It analyzed them, and concluded that the hard drive files were corrupted. The Reinstall program recommended reformatting the drives, but cautioned that the drive data be backed up before proceeding. As I already had the data backed-up, I directed the program to proceed. It checked disc condition and reformatted the hard drives. Then the program automatically started to install Windows XP. I had the Dell Reinstall CD into the DVD/CD ROM Drive, and connected my Passport with the backup files. The installation program read and reported the number of files (300,000 and total file size (148 GB) then started to load Windows Components and user data files. After 45 minutes of file transfer and loading about 100,000 files (about a third of the data), I was beginning to think this catastrophe might have a happy ending. Then the program stopped and reported a fatal error - reporting fatal error (lack of installing product catalogs) and error 800b0100-the signature for Windows XP Professional Setup is invalid. Despair.
I spent some time reviewing possible error code solutions on the Dell Community website and viewed some suggestions that components might have to be incrementally installed in a specific order, something about SATA versus PATA or IDE processes - but none of these problems appear to bear on the error codes presented. The Windows XP installation program and computer were going ninety miles an hour and purring nicely.
Current Status: Solving the error codes. For the 800b0100 error code - if a key code is what is needed - it will be a problem. As you know Dell did not provide its customers a Windows software key - it had some other agreement with Microsoft that automatically activated/validated the program. Perhaps the problem is that I upgraded Windows XP after a few years of use. I have the disc for this and can probably find the product key unless I digitized it during the decluttering exercise. Perhaps the problem is related to use of a portable WD hard drive. Neither Dell or Microsoft provide any XP support. I do not know how to stop the installation program so I can browse the back-up files. In fact, I am not sure I can even get into a back-up file. There is no internet access.
I have no idea what to make of the product catalog fatal error. This is the same machine using the same software. I do have 4-5 other Dell discs for various device drivers and utilities - but do not know how to load these in lieu of continuing with Windows XP installation.
Perhaps my switching hard drives around is causing a problem. I am at my limit of my understanding as to what to try next.
Suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I miss my Dell access, archived data base, exercise spreadsheet, and Bookworm. Please assist if solutions are possible.
Some have suggested I consider upgrading to a Windows 7 system - which is feasible if the setup for that program would recognize my backup files and programs. I liked Window 7, but would prefer reinstalling the XP program if possible.
speedstep
9 Legend
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47K Posts
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July 23rd, 2017 11:00
Optiplex GX620 Mini Tower is a very good match for replacement of a dimension 8400. Dos thru windows 10 works fine on these systems. As does the software that came with the 8400.
Typical cost for mini tower with os is $119 or less.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/504289159
speedstep
9 Legend
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47K Posts
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July 13th, 2017 09:00
Reinstalling is not working because there are no fixes for physically bad hard drives and or motherboard. An Optiplex GX620 Tower would be the way to go.
https://www.amazon.com/Refurbished-Optiplex-DVD-Rom-Windows-Professional/dp/B01CZ2POTM
This system runs XP but will also run windows 7 or 8 or 10 later on.
Its old enough to support IDE and new enough to support all the way to windows 7 and it has XP pre installed and working.
You could even disconnect the cables from your old hard drive and attach them to the Optical drive IDE cable and power to see if you can recover any data or not. I however think the drive is dead given its age.
RoHe
10 Elder
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45.2K Posts
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July 13th, 2017 12:00
I'm confused by things in your long saga...
After you "rearranged" the hard drives, is the drive intended to host the OS connected to SATA0 on the motherboard? ALL other hard drives should be disconnected from the motherboard while installing XP.
If you have more than 1 optical drive, only the one running the XP installer CD should be connected to the IDE ribbon cable during the installation, and it has to be connected to the end of the IDE cable, not to the middle connector on that cable.
Why did you connect the USB hard drive to the system during the clean install? It shouldn't connected until after XP is installed and you're ready to restore your files.
Is SATA Mode set in BIOS setup to RAID AutoDetect/ATA?
Are you loading the SATA drivers from a floppy diskette when prompted early in the XP installation process to press F6 to install that driver?
D8400 has that (stupid!) OS Install Mode setting in BIOS setup that's supposed to be enabled during installation, and then disabled once XP is fully installed. Did you enable it?
There should be a sticker on the D8400 with your unique XP product key. But if you're using a Dell XP reinstallation CD that's the same version (Home or Pro) as was originally installed by Dell then it shouldn't ask for a product key.
You may want to create a new XP installation CD that "slip-streams" SP3 into it. You don't connect this PC to the internet and even if you did, there'll be no way to safely download all the updates so you might want to get as many of them as you can by slip-streaming SP3. Read this:
winsupersite.com/.../slipstreaming-windows-xp-service-pack-3-sp3
And if you're tired of fighting with the XP installation, consider upgrading to Win 7, 32-bit. You should be able to get it with a valid product key from a reputable vendor for less than ~$100 (make sure it includes SP1!). Win 7 gets security updates and antiviral support from Microsoft until 2020. Win 7 runs perfectly on the D8400 I'm using to post this...
GranpaDell
5 Posts
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July 13th, 2017 12:00
Speedstep...thank you for commenting, but your proposed answer seems does not address the two errors codes reported and is incompatible with the successful system hard drive checks and reformating.
I suspect need a way to enter the product key for the Windows Upgrade I made with SP3, and a way to sidestep the catalog product files which were probably internet downloads back then.
I believe my problem is a software reinstall problem, not a non-functioning device or hardware issue.
Sincerely, GranpaDell
RoHe
10 Elder
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45.2K Posts
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July 13th, 2017 13:00
Regardless of what's on that external drive, you do not need it to install XP and it shouldn't be connected.
If your XP+SP3 disk isn't a Dell disk, then you'll need the Windows product key from the sticker. It's not a generic key, it's specific for your PC. So if the XP+SP3 disk is Pro and your system came with Pro, that key should work.
Is your boot hard drive IDE or SATA? If it's IDE, it's connected to a wide, flat ribbon cable. If it's SATA, it's connected by a thin SATA cable to the motherboard. SATA drives don't have jumpers for master/slave/cable select.
You only use the SATA driver on a floppy diskette, if you're installing XP on a SATA drive. The SATA driver isn't essential to install XP, but without it you'll lose capabilities for Intel Rapid Storage Matrix which improves file handling and storage.
If the system isn't booting, power off and remove the power cord from rear of PC. Press/hold power button for ~15 sec. Now connect the power cable and power on. If it doesn't boot, what color is the power button and is it steady or blinking? And what color are the 4 diagnostic LEDs on rear of the tower?
GranpaDell
5 Posts
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July 13th, 2017 13:00
RoHe...thank you for sharing your technical knowledge - my lengthy saga was provided to provide the details I thought you would need to assess the issues
With respect to your questions -
(1) I rearranged the hard-drives (remembering master and slave potential issue) to make sure I hadn't installed the drives in the wrong order. I did not know about disconnecting all the other drives from the motherboard.
(2) I will have top disconnect the second DVD drive during installation.
(3) The USB drive was disconnected during the hard drive assessment and reformatting process. After the Windows installation process started I thought the program would need access to the backup files for some of the program components and numerous updates (since there is no internet access.
(4) I do not know the answer to this question the computer...will no longer turn on...there was a brief message about numerous attempts to boot unsuccessfully before the screen died. I do not know if this is a time out program issue of if something else has failed.
(5) I do not being asked to load SATA drivers - I assumed when it called for a disc the program needed the reinstall disc.
(6) I was using Windows XP Pro - the same version as the reinstall disc, but as I mention I had upgraded the XP with SP3 on a disc I purchased some years after I purchased the Dell computer. I have the original upgrade disc and the product key code for that. There is a generic Windows XP Sticker on the machine next to the Intel Pentium 4 Sticker. The machine ID is on the front and back. There is also a service tag.
(7) Yes I believe I did enable the OS Install mode.
(8) I do not know what is meant by "slip-stream".
With this latest setback of the machine not even getting to the BIOS screen, I think I am done.
Thank you for trying to assist. I will take a look at my WD drive to see what exactly is on the disc - hopefully all my data files and non-operating system programs.
Thanks again. GranpaDell
speedstep
9 Legend
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47K Posts
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July 14th, 2017 11:00
Master and Slave is NEVER the correct setting. ALL Drives ALL controllers must be Cable select. This is the case for both Optical Drives and Hard drives. Mixing these settings does damage and prevents booting and install.
If your system came with XP the SLP product key is in Bios and therefore does not need to be entered.
You cannot use a WIN98SE or WIN2000 key on XP.
XP home keys do not work with XP pro. UPGRADE MEDIA Keys do not work on OEM systems with SLP key in bios.
The 8400 uses SATA hard drives and ATA Optical Drives.
This means that the F6 floppy drivers are REQUIRED to reinstall XP.
Otherwise you must F2 in bios and set DRIVES SATA OPERATION TO RAID Autodetect/ATA AHCI requires F6 drivers.
At the beginning of the operating system setup, press F6 to install a third party SCSI or RAID driver.
1. When prompted, select 'S' to Specify Additional Device.
2. When prompted, insert the floppy disk you created in step 2 and press Enter.
3. At this point you should be presented with a selection for one of the following depending on you hardware version and configuration:
- Intel(R) 82801FR SATA RAID Controller
- Intel(R) 82801FR SATA AHCI Controller
4. Highlight the selection that is appropriate for the hardware in your system and press Enter.
5. Press Enter again to continue. Leave the floppy disk in the system until the next reboot as the software will need to be copied from the floppy disk again when setup is copying files.
Intel Application Accelerator RAID Edition, v.4.0.0.6211, A00
https://downloads.dell.com/SATA/R78496.exe
You have to run the EXE to create the floppy.
RoHe
10 Elder
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45.2K Posts
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July 14th, 2017 11:00
BIOS has to be set to RAID AutoDetect/ATA on the D8400 prior to starting the XP installation, regardless of whether you intend to install the SATA driver from floppy by pressing F6 early during the installation or not. Otherwise the XP installer will give a BSOD that no hard drive was detected.
Assuming you install the SATA driver, you'll have to change BIOS to AHCI during the first reboot after the installation, or you'll get another BSOD. But, if you opt not to install the SATA driver during the installation, just leave BIOS set to RAID AutoDetect/ATA.
Having reinstalled XP multiple times on my D8400, I'll well-acquainted with this process. :emotion-5:
speedstep
9 Legend
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47K Posts
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July 14th, 2017 12:00
Thats not correct. I just tried it on a Dimension 8400 with XP SP1, XP SP2, XPSP3.
R78496.exe Floppy works fine on install with AHCI using the F6 method. There are "issues" with some of the older drivers and the sky blue XP SP3 CD. The Green XP SP2 CD however works fine.
Drives larger than 1TB will have issues with older bios that do not have 48 bit LBA. Drives 120 Gigs and smaller are not a problem.
Finding a 3.5 inch floppy is a problem if you didnt stockpile at least a box of them a long time ago.
Id0ru
1 Rookie
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16 Posts
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July 14th, 2017 21:00
Your computer may be physically broken (possibly due to age) and would need to be replaced. If you remove your hard drives from your computer's interior you can plug them into another computer and hopefully recover the important info on them. You said you have a laptop? There is hardware called a "Hard drive Docking Station" that you can plug your old computer's drives into and then connect it to your laptop's USB port to try and copy your information to your laptop. Here is an example of what the hardware looks like-
www.amazon.com/.../B00ITDSN5Y
It's a very handy piece of hardware to keep around for emergencies. If you do recover your important information, I would suggest purchasing a USB external hard drive and keeping your important documents on there. That way you can plug the external drive into any computer to get access to your irreplaceable files.
Good luck!
GranpaDell
5 Posts
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July 15th, 2017 12:00
Thanks for the additional info. I will try it if possible. Right now I seem to be locked out of the system by software - there is an alert message about too many tries to reboot. I needed to access BIOS info several times to get the system info. I haven't been able to read the screen fast enough before the machine is turned off.
I did not believe the 2002 Windows Upgrade disc was for Windows98 upgrade. I will discard this disc if I get another chance at the bot process.
Any suggestions for starting afresh? How can I get back to BIOS? The error says to call Dell Technical Support (Error Ithr).
I do need to detach my Western Digital portable drive, unplug the second optical drive before trying again. I have confirmed with my Windows 10 laptop that my data files and the backup file are still on WD hard drive.
RoHe
10 Elder
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45.2K Posts
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July 15th, 2017 18:00
Ahhh, yes....ye ole infamous Ithr BIOS error...
Note: BIOS will be reset to RAID AutoDetect/ATA after you remove the battery.
rdunnill
6 Professor
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8.8K Posts
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July 15th, 2017 23:00
Something seems to be physically wrong with this machine and I don't recommend sinking money into it. Something modern, like a 3020 SFF, can be had for around US$ postpaid on eBay.
speedstep
9 Legend
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47K Posts
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July 18th, 2017 09:00
Alert! Previous attempts at booting this system have failed at checkpoint [Ithr]. For help in resolving this problem, please note this checkpoint and contact Dell Technical Support.
This error usually indicates Bad Capacitors on motherboard and or in the power supply.
The failure mode may manifest as an intermittent system problem where some users may experience a failure to boot, a thermal shutdown or intermittent lockups when using the affected systems. Users may also notice that capacitors on the system board are bulging. Although not all systems are affected, Dell has implemented a unique program in North America to provide out of warranty coverage for motherboard failures related to the leaking or expanding capacitors on the affected systems. If a desktop computer listed in the "Products Affected" section has a failed motherboard exhibiting expanding or leaking capacitors and is within the time period described below, contact Dell Technical Support to have the motherboard replaced at no charge per Dell's Next Business Day service coverage program. This motherboard replacement program is valid for 5 years from the original date of purchase of the system or January 31, 2008, whichever occurs first.
GranpaDell
5 Posts
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July 22nd, 2017 14:00
Well - this would be bad news for my system...I replaced the battery today, disconnected the 2nd optical drive, and switched the hard drives around to their original configuration per RoHe suggestions. Sincere thanks for your technical assistance Ron and Sppedstep. I may have disturbed something else inn replacing the battery. The computer fails to initiate any self checks and has just a flashing yellow light on the power button. No diagnostic leds in the back. No apparent signs of damage to mother board - I will open it up again to look for bulging capacitors on the mother board. The article just shared does reflect the intermittent nature of the failure experienced.
If there is nothing that stands out in the above description of steps taken to date, then it may be time for me to think about somehow transferring my data files to an unused Windows 10 laptop. I will need to figure out how to do this without corrupting the operating system on the Windows 10 laptop, and somehow capturing the programs that existed on the dead Dell. I also need to make sure that the network connections on the Dell are set to prevent any data access from our family archives or financial records. Is it possible to run two separate operating systems on different drives on the laptop?
Thanks again for the great responses to my crashed Dell dilemma, Sincerely - GranpaDell