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February 7th, 2023 23:00
Adding Discrete GPU (GTX 1650 Super or 1660 Super) to Inspiron 3910
Inspiron 3910
I am awaiting contact with Dell Support, but thought I might gain a more in-depth answer, certainly a variety of thoughts at least if I posed the inquiry to the community.
I purchased a new Inspiron 3910 in December 2022 and at the time I had a different intended use for it that has since changed. The unit I purchased had the i7-12700 with integrated graphics. Frankly, even with the intended use change, the integrated graphics will likely be adequate 75% of the time, but the change means that the remaining 25% of the use will need a discrete GPU of sufficient capability that only a discrete GPU will make the use complete in reasonable time. The Inspiron 3910 is available with just integrated graphics, or with the NVIDIA GeForce GT 730 OR GeForce GTX 1650 Super OR GeForce GTX 1660 Super. If I upgrade, the change from integrated to the GT 730 is not sufficient to make the attempt. I have found the GeForce 1650 Super and 1660 Super for reasonable prices. The power supply in the i7 is a 300W which is the same wattage as in the units with discrete GPU's from the factory. I have an available PCIe x16 slot. My system has 32GB of RAM in dual channel mode, 2 SSD's, optical drive, really everything is great, but one item that will be problematic if I don't find a resolution. In the models that came with discrete cards from the Dell factory, the card occupies the x16 slot, but has a 6-pin power connection which I believe powers the two fans on the specified discrete GPU cards. What I don't know is if I purchase a 1650 or 1660, is if I will be able to interface it with the power supply using a cable connection. What, in the community's opinion, would I need to make such a connection? I am sorry for being so verbose, but I wanted to be clear the simplicity of the problem, yet it is a no-go if I can't interface it. What info, opinions, insight, etc. would some experts have to offer? Can I make the upgrade? Essentially, if the upgrade is possible, what parts might I need? Is there a part or a part name that I can find on Amazon, CDW, Dell, etc? What, in addition to the card, would I need as the final part in the upgrade?
I can't thank the community enough in advance! THANK YOU!
redxps630
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February 8th, 2023 05:00
If you already have the 300w psu, it is sufficient for discrete video card 1650S or 1660S. The psu has a black 6 pin connector for 1650S which has a 6 pin socket.
For your own 1660S, you can use a Dell 6 to 8 pin adapter as retail 1660S card typically has an 8 pin socket such as this one from PNY.
Most of the power in that 6 pin powers the gpu chip in the video card. The pciex16 slot also supplies power to the video card. The video card fans take up minimal power only.
redxps630
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February 10th, 2023 20:00
Re: PCIe slot providing the power itself, does that mean it doesn't need to the 8 pin connection connected at all
For a video card that has TDP>75 W, you need both PCIe slot power and 6/8 pin connector from psu. The latter actually provides most of the power to the card when it is needed.
not sure which exact cards Dell has provisioned for 3910. spec just mentions discrete 1650S and 1660S, but since these are cards a few years old (circa 2019), they may be these Dell oem cards below (used in XPS 8940).
The Dell oem 1660S 7MKYT is no frill and has 6 pin.
Pls upload your 300w psu factory label and 8 pin connector. I think it might be a 6+2 pin which can be split.
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER 4GB GDDR6
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER 6GB GDDR6
RoHe
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February 8th, 2023 19:00
FYI - You may have to disable Secure Boot in BIOS setup before you install any "after-market" (eg, non-Dell OEM) video card.
Not a big deal to make that change for a non-Dell GPU, especially if you want to get one for a good price. See table 2.
Radiochemist
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February 9th, 2023 19:00
redxps630: I believe your answer is the solution, thank you for the detailed reply! Your inclusion of the info on the connectors that should be present and the adapter especially was what I was trying to ask about. I looked again inside the chassis and I have 3 free SATA power connectors free (another is connected to the optical drive. I just found what I thought was the 6 pin connector I just overlooked as it was tucked behind a small space and inside but it turns out it is an 8 pin connector! Either way, I would like to get the adapter just to have even if it isn't going to be used in this install... I guess this means the 1660S would work without any adapter needed? Is there an 8 pin to 6 adapter should I elect to get 1650S? I'll probably go with the 1660S so not a big deal...
Your comment about the PCIe slot providing the power itself, does that mean it doesn't need to the 8 pin connection connected at all? Or am I missing something? I can say for certain now it will be the 1660S, but I don't see it as a part from Dell yet or I would definitely but it from them. I have found multiple non-Dell makers of the 1660S and for less than I expected, so I will almost definitely go with them. If the slot can power the card itself, why is the 8 pin connection included?
More info would be so much appreciated as I am not just a person who wants and answer and never returns to report my experience--I want to learn as well! So THANK YOU for your explanation.
Radiochemist
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February 9th, 2023 19:00
I'm embarrassed to ask this, but it's better to be a little embarrassed than too proud to ask questions, BUT ANYWAY... RoHe, why would Secure Boot have to be disabled? I have a bachelor's and M.Sci. in radiochemisty AND a bachelor's in Digital Forensics, so I should know this for sure, but... is it because a computer already setup would see the add-in as not part of the hardware present when the PC had it's OS installed and the UEFI would not view the car as part of the secured setup? I planned to install the card and see how it performs, then if it's a go, I would do a clean install. In the clean install, I wouldn't have a problem right? I mean I could set secure boot to enabled when doing the clean install, right? I defer to your expertise here, just like I do with redxps630... THANKS!
RoHe
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February 10th, 2023 13:00
@Radiochemist - Never be shy about asking questions...
Only some companies are willing pay big bucks to Micro$oft to have their drivers officially "certified", which is extra security that drivers being loaded at boot have been checked by Microsoft, safe, and not malware.
If a driver hasn't been certified by Microsoft, it's prevented from loading when Secure Boot is enabled in BIOS setup. Drivers for Dell's OEM video cards are certified and load when Secure Boot is enabled (or even when not enabled).
Retail ("after-market") video drivers are typically not signed so they can't load and PC won't boot. So before installing a retail video card, you need to disable Secure Boot. Otherwise, you'll have to remove the new card, disable Secure Boot, and then reinstall the new card.
Radiochemist
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February 13th, 2023 23:00
RoHe,
OK, I understand this reason and in fact I did know the requirment of drivers being loaded at startup having to be certified and signed in order to load, else boot fails until as you say, the hardware is removed, SB disabled. I was however unaware that drivers for GPU's made by widely known makers like nVidia were so often not signed. I understand that the GPU's made by a company like nVidia are purchased by a selection of GPU packagers who design a card, the supporting electronics, and decide what connectors for video their card with support, etc. Around this they design their drivers.
Does this mean that if I get one of these cards, and its drivers are not certified/signed, that I will never be able to use the Secure Boot feature, or is it a temporary change until the card is fully installed and then SB can be re-enabled? To avoid this, is there a maker of video cards that employ nVidia GPU's which have a higher than average driver certification and signature likelihood? For instance, PNY makes cards that usually have the signed drivers whereas MSI usually does not (just using them as examples). Or am I stuck trying to get a Dell-branded 1650S or 1660S, which likely will mean I will be paying 150% to 250% or more than the equivalent card without Dell branding?
Radiochemist
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February 14th, 2023 00:00
redxps630: I understand your reply and your need to see the PSU label and the unused power cable connector that I mentioned I just noticed... it looks like an 8 pin, but I trust your evaluation of the plug and its properties (a true 8 vs 6+2). I am replying with this short acknowledgement to let you know I will be getting the needed photo of the 300W PSU label and several photos of the power cable assembly for you to evaluate and then advise (so many thanks for all this help!). It just will take me a day or possibly two to get the photos and upload them; but I wanted you to know I would be doing it ASAP, but that may be as I said, 1 to 2 days... so photos are forthcoming! Thanks so much!
RoHe
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February 14th, 2023 12:00
@Radiochemist - You could either contact Tech Support at OEMs that make any of the GPUs you might want and ask if their driver is certified to work with Win 11 when Secure Boot is enabled. Or, just buy the one you want and try it with/without Secure Boot enabled. Needing to disable Secure Boot isn't a "one-time" thing because the driver gets checked during every boot. You'll have to evaluate whether the extra security Secure Boot offers is of any value to you.
Dell OEM cards work with Secure Boot enabled, but as you said, they cost more. And, they typically have lower specs and/or fewer fans, fewer/different output ports, etc, than an after-market card with the same NVidia or AMD model number. Dell OEM GPUs typically also have lower PSU requirements than an after-market card with the same model number, and are designed to work lower wattage PSUs that Dell installs.
Radiochemist
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February 16th, 2023 20:00
@redxps630 I am a bit late submitting the photos, but here they are... one of the PSU label, and one of the 8 pin plug, with another showing (terrible photo) the wiring of those 8 pins, if you can see it clearly enough... Many thanks!
300W Inspiron 3910 PSU label...
redxps630
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February 16th, 2023 21:00
That looks like the correct 300w psu for 3910. I want to confirm it has only one 4 pin cpu connector. if I am correct the 8 pin can probably be split into 6+2 pin.
Radiochemist
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February 17th, 2023 01:00
@redxps630I have attached photos of all power supply connections to the MoBo. The labels I am giving the photos are the labels printed on the MoBo (these are much clearer photos and thus higher resolution, hope that helps). I also included a photo of the unused 8 pin connector and its wiring... again, much clearer.
ATX CPU
redxps630
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February 17th, 2023 05:00
Yes from the 2nd last photo it looks like a 6+2 pin PCIe connector which you can use for video card (either 6 or 8 pin).
Radiochemist
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February 20th, 2023 23:00
@redxps630I know I have said it already, but I really can't thank you enough for all your expert info and advice. @RoHe You too!
I am prepared to mark a solution as accepted, but still have just some minor questions, those that are more opinion than system facts...
I need secure boot, so a card made by a manufacturer that has had their hardware and the attendant video drivers certified (I think that's by the WHQL) and subsequently signed is a must. Is there a maker that has a better reputation for having their cards more likely to be cert'd/dig. signed? Like PNY, EVGA, etc? I just don't have a lot of experience in third party upgrades like this and wanted some opinions.
I have condensed what I believe are my LAST questions into just 3 relatively short-answer questions.
Q1) Should I be looking for a card with 2 fans, or will 1 suffice if the use is limited (no games, just moderate use for acceleration of a few science-related applications)? It doesn't especially matter to me whether the card has 1 or 2, but I want to have as thermally stable a unit as possible, and knowing this info will help in selecting a card maker. PNY, MSI, EVGA, etc.???
Q2) Should I be looking for a card with a certain form factor, i.e., half height, one that uses a single slot knockout or two, low or very low profile, etc.? I have done a cursory check of the 3910's that come with discrete graphics cards and it seems the ones I have encountered all occupy two slot knockouts. I have a discrete audio board utilizing the 1x slot, so I am more than a little concerned about there being room for the graphics card, especially with the fan assembly. The 3910 has solder points for a fourth slot (SLOT4), but no slot is included. This leaves SLOT3 which is where the x16 slot is mounted, SLOT2 where the x1 slot is mounted, and a label printed on the PCB "SLOT1," but for which, like SLOT4, there is no slot mounted. Input from any owners of this model regarding what I am speaking of would be greatly appreciated. Upon reviewing my basic PC hardware reference, I seem to recall and can see in multiple standard sketches that the fan assembly is mounted in such a way, I will call the underside, which means it would not present an issue. Why would a PC manufacturer put in two slots next to each other knowing that if the x16 is used for graphics, most will require a two slot knockout accommodation? Yeah, I know they don't always make the best choices! I may just elect to use a USB audio solution if this is the case. The chassis is starting to get quite crowded anyway, removing the x1 board would at least help a small amount with air circulation, but info either way is sought...
Q3) Finally, if a single slot, single knockout graphics card must be utilized instead of the 1650S / 1660S, what would be the closest in capabilities? By capabilities I mean GPU, Feature set (OpenCL, CUDA, PhysX, DirectCompute, etc.) and Memory Type (GDDR5,GDDR6), Memory Bus Interface Width (128/192/256 bit)? I think I have largely rendered this question moot, but thought I'd ask anyway.
Once again, THANK YOU EVERYONE!
redxps630
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February 21st, 2023 05:00
Dell oem gtx 1660S or 1650S should be plug n play. PNY and EVGA are both good brands. I would choose whatever that looks best for you or the one w lowest price and longest warranty. MSI used to make some fancy colorful design of its card. It is a matter of personal preference.
single fan suffices because this is not a high power card. Standard height card is ok for 3910 mini tower. Low profile card is for Slim/SFF pc. The less physical restraint you put on card, the more room for cooler. Bigger fan is more quiet than small fan.
double slot width video card of 3910 does not get in the way of second small card in PCIe x1 slot because the x16 slot is south of x1 slot. no interference there.
Dell does not solder additional slot because 3910 is budget entry level line and Dell tries to save a penny wherever it can.