Battery Backup, XPS Studio 435T

Irv,

I ran in the same type of problems. Had to return an APC BackUps toBest Buy. I now have an APC SUA type that works fine. The 435T did not miss a beat when I unpluggged the AC cord on the UPS. I did not want to spend that much money either. Went to the APC website and their factory outlet store. I could have saved about $100 on a newly returned unit. But I decided to follow the link on that same web page to the APC Certified Pre-owned UPS partner. They sell refurbished (older units but completely checked out and guaranteed for 3 years). I saved $270 on an SUA1000.

Hope this helps.

Paul

Firebird,

Some power supplies require a "sine wave" or "near sine wave" AC power and only certain UPS systems (usually the higher $ models) will do that.  If you don't want to return the PC you have two choices, replace the power supply with one that will tolerate the UPS systems that do not have the "sine wave" output or buy, as noted, a UPS that does.  I'm in the northern Tampa suburbs and have UPS' on my PC's (two), my HD TV and my electronic telephone/answering machine.  I'm on SECO (Sumpter Electric Co Op but they buy their power from Progress Energy).  Just before I posted this, we just had a typical Florida downpour and thunder and lightning storm go through).

I'm near Orlando, Clermont, and Progress Energy customer, not as bad though as when I lived in So. Fl., Florida Power and Light, nicknamed 'Flicker, Power, and Light'. :emotion-1: I guess that storm is headed our way, heavy afternoon showers are the norm these days.

I understand the sine wave issue, BUT which PSU's need it is the real question? Is it try a 'stand-by' UPS and if that doesn't work get the next level? Is it only the shape of the sine wave or does battery transfer time come into play also, or both?

We'll see if it is pure sine wave only though if the $200 APC-SUA1000 works... hope it does. Next step up is an 'always-or' or 'double conversion' which is hard to find for under $500 for a 600W unit, used no less. Kind of expensive for a home system that costs under $2,000 usually.

Paul,

Irv, I ran in the same type of problems. Had to return an APC BackUps toBest Buy. I now have an APC SUA type that works fine. The 435T did not miss a beat when I unpluggged the AC cord on the UPS. I did not want to spend that much money either. Went to the APC website and their factory outlet store. I could have saved about $100 on a newly returned unit. But I decided to follow the link on that same web page to the APC Certified Pre-owned UPS partner. They sell refurbished (older units but completely checked out and guaranteed for 3 years). I saved $270 on an SUA1000. Hope this helps. Paul

Thanks for the reply, I was beginning to wonder if anyone used UPS's with home systems?

I was going round and round on this over the weekend (a long one no less) and decided to wait until I could call some companies.

APC last week told me the SUA1000 would work fine, but on a chat with a refurbished reseller they said NO,  for PFC PSU's you need an 'always on' or 'true UPS'. That was probably the company on the web you got your unit from with the 3 year guarantee. By Sunday they were 'out of stock'. Others had them, some for less money, but warranties ranging from 30 days to 1 year, but ALL with new batteries.

What bothered me more was  trying to FIND out what UPS I needed?

Another call to APC this morning resulted in an answer that the SUA1000 probably wouldn't work? They said a 'double conversion' unit was required? After some questioning about the differences between a BACK-UPS like I have and a SMART-UPS series, I was told it was basically the sine wave output. The BACK-UPS series is a pulsed wave simulating a sine wave and the SMART-UPS are true sine wave output. Then the APC person sort of implied if all the PSU required was the pure sine wave, the SUA1000 would work, but he couldn't guarantee it?

This morning after TALKING to 2 refurbished resellers I was still confused. One said it wouldn't work, the other said it would? I figured I'd call Dell, cold, not giving my old incident number, and ask what UPS I'd need. Bounced around a few different people and eventually was cut-off, and they NEVER called back.

There are UPS terms thrown around like 'stand-by', 'on-line', 'in-line', 'always on', and 'double conversion' and many spec sheets don't list what type they are making it hard to judge what is required?

I did order an SUA1000 though, bit the bullet so to speak, and I'm glad you answered and gave approval for the SUA1000. I'll reply back when I get it if it works or doesn't? I could still have a bad PSU anyway I guess that would work with anything? I've had this system drop 5 time in the last 2 1/2 weeks and the UPS didn't register ANY loss of power during this period?

I still don't understand why Dell chose to put a PSU in a home unit that REQUIRES a Server type UPS vs. the normal 'standby UPS' that are made for home and cost significantly less?

Some power supplies require a "sine wave" or "near sine wave" AC power and only certain UPS systems (usually the higher $$ models) will do that.  If you don't want to return the PC you have two choices, replace the power supply with one that will tolerate the UPS systems that do not have the "sine wave" output or buy, as noted, a UPS that does. 

I'm in the northern Tampa suburbs and have UPS' on my PC's (two), my HD TV and my electronic telephone/answering machine.  I'm on SECO (Sumpter Electric Co Op but they buy their power from Progress Energy).  Just before I posted this, we just had a typical Florida downpour and thunder and lightning storm go through).

Irv,

There is a lot of confusion about the UPS that will work. As indicated by the other posters and from what I have been told, the newer computer systems with power supplies incorporating PFC (Power Factor Correction) require sine wave outputs from the UPS. Another problem is that the switchover from wall power to UPS power takes from 4-8 milliseconds in the Back UPS series while the Smart UPS only takes 2-4 milliseconds (all this from what I have been told, no actual test figures were provided). Some people on the APC forum mentioned that the approximated sine wave output will cause the transformer in the PSU in the PC to vibrate and be noisy, which is not the case with the sine wave output units. Finally some posters on the APC forums mentioned that with a larger Back UPS unit, they got the switchover to battery power to work, perhaps because the larger inrush current of a PFC power supply was provided in a shorter switch over time? With my SUA unit I do not have to worry about any of this anymore.

Paul

I went through Clermont about a week ago.  I also played music at an RV park on US27 on the north side of Clermont back in February (with Tommy Cash).

 I assume a little north of the winery here then? Either Clerbrook or the one with B's Restuarant in it.

Thanks for the info on the "PFC" power supplies.  I'll keep this in mind in case I run into it with a client's PC. 

I went through Clermont about a week ago.  I also played music at an RV park on US27 on the north side of Clermont back in February (with Tommy Cash).

It was Clearbrook.  I've worked so many RV parks in west central Florida in the last 7 years touring with Tommy Cash and George Hamilton IV  that they all become a "blur".

Paul,

Irv, There is a lot of confusion about the UPS that will work. As indicated by the other posters and from what I have been told, the newer computer systems with power supplies incorporating PFC (Power Factor Correction) require sine wave outputs from the UPS. Another problem is that the switchover from wall power to UPS power takes from 4-8 milliseconds in the Back UPS series while the Smart UPS only takes 2-4 milliseconds (all this from what I have been told, no actual test figures were provided). Some people on the APC forum mentioned that the approximated sine wave output will cause the transformer in the PSU in the PC to vibrate and be noisy, which is not the case with the sine wave output units. Finally some posters on the APC forums mentioned that with a larger Back UPS unit, they got the switchover to battery power to work, perhaps because the larger inrush current of a PFC power supply was provided in a shorter switch over time? With my SUA unit I do not have to worry about any of this anymore. Paul

Got my SUA1000 yesterday, installed it today, everything works fine...

The PowerChute Business s/w isn't as 'through' as the Personal edition, but it works and tells me mostly what I want to know. Biggest problem difference, with the home I was able to disable the alarm for loss of power for specific hours. With the Business s/w, it is either ON or OFF...

Got my SUA1000 yesterday, installed it today, everything works fine...

Great to hear it works out for you. Thanks for the feedback.

I did not install the PowerChute SW yet. I figured I did not really need it and it seemed a hassle to install. Did you use the USB A-B cable? And did you only install the Agent part of the SW?

Paul

Irv,

Thanks for your response.

I might install the PowerChute SW this weekend and check out all the information it provides.

Paul

Paul,

[quote user="ispalten"] Got my SUA1000 yesterday, installed it today, everything works fine...

Great to hear it works out for you. Thanks for the feedback.

I did not install the PowerChute SW yet. I figured I did not really need it and it seemed a hassle to install. Did you use the USB A-B cable? And did you only install the Agent part of the SW?

Paul

[/quote]

Yes, installed it and I'm using the USB cable. I think it only installs the agent on a single system install, but not sure.

It isn't like the Personal Edition which puts an icon on the Systray. Business uses a web browser based 'program' using 127.0.0.1 ports to access the h/w. If you want to do a MANUAL power off test the s/w will do it, but one could always hold in the power button to do it as well.

I does provide info, like the serial number, when batteries were last replaced, and that mine was originally produced in Oct. 2002.

Got my SUA1000 yesterday, installed it today, everything works fine...

Irv, I have the same problem here. I'm using a BackUPS ES750, had power cut for a sec the other day and the system shut down. I thought it was the battery, but it's only about a year old. Plugged in a lamp and battery backup kept it on. Tried the manual self-test on PowerChute, battery didn't even get a chance to kick in, system shuts down! So I went posting on APC forums, and guess what...it's a small world...I see ispalten's thread...hmm..that name looks familiar. So I searched and traced you back here!

Anyway...I guess I can confirm that my ES750 is out of the question for the 435T, correct? And I should get the SUA1000?

How much does it cost, $200?, and where did you order it from? Is it only available thru' APC?

Thanks Irv...you just saved me from running around in circles!

OUCHHH!!!! I just searched and it costs about $430 new! :emotion-3: This is ridiculous, really. What's up with that Dell???

I saw some refurbished ones that range from $77 to under $200. Are those reliable, and why the price difference? Is there a way to tell which is better? Any details in the refurbs to look out for before buying?

Cosmos, my original reply got pulled, I put a phone number in it.

I can't say why the price difference, other than the lowest is probably used, older used batteries, and those in the $200 range are probably refurbished/reconditioned with new batteries.

So far, my $192 delivered unit is working fine and it was made in Oct. 2002... I have older APC units here so I don't think age is a deciding factor.

E-mail me if you wish more details.